Jiraiya said with a somber expression, "I didn't know my teacher... no, Sarutobi Hiruzen, was that kind of person."
"After Shamu and Orochimaru exposed what he'd done, I investigated it myself. It was all true."
"But I didn't know about these things back then. I also didn't know Sarutobi Hiruzen had used so many members of the Senju Clan for human experiments."
Tobirama's expression darkened.
"It's normal that you didn't know. Back then, my brother told our clansmen to keep a low profile. Many of them even changed their names."
"I never expected that, after all these years, so many of our clansmen would be gone."
Jiraiya did not know how to respond and remained silent.
Tobirama said, "Tell me about Shamu's rise to power."
As an intelligence operative, Jiraiya knew these matters fairly well.
He began with the time Danzo had Shisui's eyes dug out, then explained how Shamu had retreated in order to advance, having the Uchiha Clan withdraw from the Military Police Force.
He gave up that authority to the Hyuga Clan, then had Itachi, after revealing his Susanoo, leave Konoha.
He hung the Sword of Damocles over Konoha's head, keeping Konoha from resorting to force while using commerce to engage Sarutobi Hiruzen in political maneuvering.
He also mentioned the incidents involving Cloud Village and the suppression of Danzo.
Just as the Uchiha food business was beginning to pick up, Shamu immediately set out on a journey. He went to the Land of Wind and was suspected of making a deal with Rasa.
Then he went to the Hidden Mist Village and exposed Obito's control over it.
After that, he invited Tsunade into the Uchiha Clan and made her their medical consultant.
He had Tsunade acknowledge Naruto as her younger brother.
By winning over Tsunade, he made