"Pain, of course."
Konan answered Deidara's question without hesitation.
She had never met Hashirama Senju, but even Hanzo of the Salamander, once called a demigod, had died at Nagato's hands. Even against the so-called God of Shinobi, Nagato would surely win.
But no one agreed with her. Instead, they all turned their gazes toward Kakuzu.
Everyone knew Kakuzu had lived a long time, surviving from the Warring States Period to the present. If anyone was qualified to judge the First Hokage's strength, it was him.
"When I was young, I was indeed hired to assassinate the First Hokage."
Kakuzu spoke openly about the experience, his voice carrying only the calm of someone stating a fact.
"But I failed utterly. He drove me back before I could even force him to reveal his true strength."
He paused, then added, "Later, our leader defeated me as well, which was why I joined the Akatsuki."
In other words, Kakuzu had fought both of them directly.
He was the most qualified person to compare the two.
However, what Kakuzu said next caught Deidara and the others off guard, revealing the careful consideration of a veteran powerhouse:
"But when ninja fight, victory and defeat have never depended solely on raw strength on paper."
Kakuzu spoke in a low voice.
"Timing, terrain, intelligence, condition, tactical matchups... all these factors affect one another, changing from moment to moment."
He analyzed the situation. "As far as timing and terrain go, both the First Hokage's terrain-altering Wood Release and the power our leader commands essentially allow them to disregard their opponent's environmental advantages, or even forcibly create a battlefield that favors them.
In that respect, they stand on equal footing."
Next, he brought up the more crucial issue of favorable matchups:
"Just as Deidara can effectively counter opponents who